Crossfit endurance, Tabata sprints, and why people just don’t get it

Crossfit endurance, Tabata sprints, and why people just don’t get it

Not terribly long ago, I stopped dating a girl because she did crossfit.
Okay, it wasn’t the only reason, but it was a major factor. I mention this not to show how messed up my dating life/requirements may be, but to show how strongly I feel about the marketing scheme that is Crossfit.  I’ve always wanted to write a blog post about it, but the article in this months Runner’s World has finally pushed me over the edge.  I’m writing this blog to give a 2nd opinion and to combat the marketing hype that surrounds crossfit.  I wouldn’t take much offense to crossfit and would let it do its own thing, except when you start telling people that this is the way of the future and that Ryan Hall would run faster if he did this stuff , then I have a problem (Yes, CFE founder has made this claim)

For this post, we’ll focus on Crossfit Endurance because it got some major publication in this month’s Runner’s World and has been getting some hype lately.  If you were at my presentation at the American Distance Summit in North Carolina, you got to hear me take a few jabs at crossfit (and Renato Canova even threw in a jab or two!).  Since it’s a question I get asked a lot, lets take a look at crossfit endurance.

The claim and exploitation:

Crossfit Endurance and CF in general is a randomized non-system of training.  It’s basically a set of random workouts that are high intensity circuit based workouts.  In CF this refers to a variety of high strength circuits and in CFE it combines this with high intensity intervals like the famous Tabata “sprints” (sets of 20sec hard/10sec easy).  There are no easy runs.  It’s simply mix short intensity work with slightly longer high intensity work and that’s all you get.
Crossfit exploits a couple different natural reactions people have to get people on their bandwagon.  First, they create a straw man “us vs. them” mentality.  We’ll go over this straw man tactic a bit later, but they try and cultivate this idea that just because it’s different and new means its got to be better.  They throw in some pseudoscience or misinterpretation of science and they’ve bolstered their selling point.  Further exploiting peoples natural habits, they promise better results with less time commitment, which in today’s “busy” world is probably the number one selling point for many products or ideas. If you’ve ever watched late night infomercials, you might start to see some similarities…

Lastly, once you’re in they do something pretty creative.  They first created their own new performance metric on which you’re judged.  Because being good at all the other methods of establishing performance isn’t good enough, so now you’re judged based on some criteria that crossfit develops.  Being a specialist at something is apparently bad?  Additionally, they really go after this hard work/pain = improvement and results idea.  This is also known as the Rocky effect.  But if you’ve been in the coaching business long enough you know that hard stupid work doesn’t get you anywhere.  You can’t just do work that is painful just because it hurts and expect to get better.

Getting beyond some of the basic philosophical tenants of CF that are ridiculous, let’s look at some of their claims in regards to endurance performance and training.
What crossfit doesn’t get:
The central claim is that you can get the same endurance benefits (or better) from doing high intensity work and limit any slower to moderate paced running.  They go on to claim that endurance training ages you faster and is detrimental to performance.  Their claim rests on their misunderstanding of VO2max as being equal to or critical to performance. 
Let’s use their main research backed claim to look into their claims.
Tabata sprints and the high intensity misunderstanding:
A researcher named Tabata did a series of studies on untrained and then moderately trained individuals in which he gave them a workout that consisted of 20sec hard/10sec rest for 4minutes.  When this program was researched, they noted that VO2max increased by a large amount and that certain aerobic enzymes also increased.  Using this and similar studies as their basis, CF has championed the idea that you can get the same, or better, performance off of doing intense work like that done in the study.  Lets use this as a way to look at why these claims are false.

#1 VO2max does not equal aerobic performance:
While I’ve written before about the measurement of VO2max and how it relates to performance and you can read more in depth on it in those blog posts, it bears repeating the conclusions reached by Vollaard et al (2009):
“Moreover, we demonstrate that VO2max and aerobic performance associate with distinct and separate physiological and biochemical endpoints, suggesting that proposed models for the determinants of endurance performance may need to be revisited (pg. 1483)”.
The basic idea is that VO2max and performance are separate things.  Just because VO2max is increased or decreased, does not mean that performance will change to the same degree or even at all.  This is a key concept to understand because often times studies will track training’s effects on VO2max and not performance.  For instance, in much of the research cited by CF or even cited in journal articles that talks about the benefit of high intensity training or strength training, they talk about changes in VO2max.
#2 Intervals increase aerobic ability of FT fibers
At the coaching clinic I presented at Renato Canova made a nice point that somewhat fast interval training can increase the aerobic ability of Fast Twitch fibers.  It’s best to think of it as an interplay between FT and ST fibers.  In that different intensities and volumes will increase aerobic or anaerobic enzymes in each type of fibers along the spectrum.  What that means is that although high and low intensity might both hit similar aerobic enzymes, they do so in different ways and in different fiber types.
#3 Why does VO2max improve?
Understanding why VO2max improves is another key to understanding this whole debate.  VO2max does not simply reflect aerobic ability.  Instead VO2max is influenced by several mechanisms.  First off, if you’ve read Noakes central governor or if you’ve read recent research on VO2max testing protocols, you’d know that VO2max isn’t an actual max.  You’re body self limits it.  One way to improve VO2max in a test is to be familiar in pushing closer to that “edge”.  If your body knows you can go there, it loosens the limits a little bit.  Very hard interval training lets the body know it can handle high stress loads.

Secondly, we know that VO2max is influenced by muscle fiber recruitment.  So if we increase the amount of recruitable muscle fibers during a test, the VO2max will rise.  What’s a way to increase muscle fiber recruitment? Sprinting, strength training, etc.  It’s one of the reasons why you see VO2max increases in untrained athletes but not so much in trained following strength training.  The trained ones are pretty good at recruiting more and more fibers as they get closer to fatigue.  The untrained, not so much.
#4 What Happens when we build a base and follow it up with intensity?
A major problem with research studies is that they are all short term.  It’s the nature of the beast.  But let me pose a few questions to all of you. 
What does the typical recreational endurance athlete do? 
If you answered jog around or do easy and moderate runs with little hard workouts you’d be correct.  Most recreational runners for instance simply go run.  Why does this matter?
What happens when you take people just doing mileage and add intensity?
If you answered they improve over a short time, you’d be correct!  Think back to your HS days when you spent a summer building a base of almost just mileage and then you hit the season and your coach starts throwing interval training into the mix.  You get a nice boost in performance right?  This is essentially what happens in these research studies.  They take recreational runners who just do easy/base stuff and then throw 6 weeks of training hard on them and they improve.  Ask any coach and they’ll say this is just a simple old school peaking/training program. In fact, it might resemble your typical HS application of Lydiard training.


#5 What CrossFit endurance does is reminiscent of training done in the early 1900s:
I harp on people to know their history so that they don’t repeat training mistakes.  In the history of endurance training it’s been a constant back and forth between intensity and volume of work. Early on there were very very big swings.  So we went back and forth between training that was almost all easy slow running and that which was all hard interval training.  As training has evolved we’ve gotten closer and closer to that sweet spot and mix.

What CFE has done is ignore all that and try and go back to a time when all that was done was very hard very fast interval work.  It worked to a degree, but performance got much better when we modulated things so that there was a nice mix.

Essentially, Crossfit is living in like the 1940s. We’ve learned from those times and evolved. 
#6 A straw man of LSD vs. high intensity:
Crossfit, and many others, typically create a straw man where they compare their training to a type of training that isn’t used but by very beginners.  They paint running training as almost all LSD (long slow distance), when the reality is if you look at any elite, college, or high school training program there is a nice blend of volume and intensity.  No one is just jogging around each day.  Yet that is what they have you believe.  This even happens in research when they compare interval training with just jogging around, as if jogging around was the norm for training. 
What happens in the real world of course is that there is a nice mixture and blend between volume and intensity.  Essentially, they are arguing for something that doesn’t occur. 
#7 Two ways to improve aerobic endurance
In fact, if you look at how some endurance adaptations happen, you can see that to increase things like mitochondrial density, several different intensities trigger similar adaptations.  This goes along with the point on enzyme activity and FT/ST fibers.  But if we look at this nice graphic from Laursen (2009), we can see that two different pathways to achieve some of these functional adaptations are activated by endurance and interval training.  So why the heck would we want to use only one pathway when two different means of getting these nice adaptations are there.  If you just attacked the problem from one side, you’d maximize that side quickly and have nowhere to go!

Additionally, we know that repetitive stress and activation of signaling pathways is what triggers adaptation.  It’s one of the reasons why we train pretty much every day for maximum performance even if some of it is low intensity.  That low intensity easy to moderate work helps to enhance recovery and applies a consistent signal for adaptation.  Pure rest in this case isn’t better (which is often the counterargument).

#8 Periodization matters:
It seems simple enough that people would know that how you plan and periodize training matters.  Training isn’t a random collection of hard exercises or workouts.  There has to be some sort of logical sequence and progression.  If there’s not, then you can expect to get exactly what you trained for, random results.
The bottom line is that so called high intensity interval training (HIIT) which is the new fad word with strength coaches is good.  But for endurance performance it’s even better when it is supported!  You have to support it with something.  Endurance work of various kinds and even pure speed work (with lots of recovery) serves as support for the intense stuff.
#9 Interaction matters:
Endurance and strength gains fight each other a bit for adaptation.  While I don’t want to get bogged down in the details, if we look at the signaling pathway for some endurance adaptations and then muscle hypertrophy which are two goals of CF and CFE, we can see that they interact and in fact impair each other in some cases.  For example, doing endurance work right after strength can impair hypertrophy because the mTOR pathway(which signals hypertrophy among other things) is basically switched off with endurance work. This isn’t meant to show that they are mutually exclusive, but instead to show that when you do things matters.  Sometimes a whole heck of a lot!  Thus why you have to think about and plan things, not just do random hard workouts.

This goes for not only sequencing of endurance and strength work, but also in regards to sequencing different strength workouts.  You have to know what pre-fatiguing muscles does to the subsequent training effect.  And you have to know what the effect is on the Central Nervous System.  Crossfit doesn't think about this at all.  They don't care.
#11 Individualization
My number one pet peeve.  There is no individualization.  Workout of the day.  That's the norm.  Beyond that, everyone does the same crap for the most part.  I could go on for days on the importance of individualization, and CF and CFE fail miserably.

What does this all mean?
What happens in the long term?

Again, I’m going to ask a rhetorical question, for you HS coaches out there what happens if you mess up the balance and do too much intense interval training after that base phase?  The answer is the kids fried.  You see it all the time in High School.  A kid hits the interval training hard, runs some amazing early season times and then fizzles out and is fried by the end of the year.  That’s what happens training wise.  If you want lactate proof, this is what happens aerobically if you mess things up.  You shift the balance to working anaerobically too much (Test #3) and you produce more lactate at each pace, and you are done!
The reason is that there is an interplay between easy to moderate running and intense running or even strength training.  If you work too much on the intensity or strength side you shift things towards that way.  In practical terms your lactate produced at each speed might go up or you might decrease aerobic ability a little bit.  Same goes if you do too much volume with not enough speed support.  You’re speed side would be neglected so that would go down.  It depends on what you are training for but achieving some sort of balance is key.

Additionally, if we look at very long term implications for performance we know that the foundational aerobic mileage does a few things.  First in long term studies on Cross Country skiers, the high volume of training created a fundamental shift in fiber type towards those which improved their performance.  So we got a ST fiber type shift for guys who needed lots of ST.  Secondly, the high volume of training leads to long term increases in efficiency.  Yes, high intensity work or even lifting can do this too but again it’s through different mechanisms.  Lifting for example can increase efficiency via modulating stiffness of the system.  Or essentially creating a stiffer spring.  High Volume training on the other hand works via increase the efficiency of both motor program patterns (because of the repeated nature) and at the muscular level in terms of oxygen utilization and waste product removal.  Again, two different ways to hit the same functional adaptation (improved efficiency), so why would we just want to work on one of them.
So we have research showing that in very elite runners, long term high volume training is needed to make functional changes.  We have practical experience in that throughout history we’ve shifted towards the volumes we do now and that practically every single good runner does a solid amount of mileage (with good intensity mixed in) and we have the theory of why mileage should work.

If we simply put crossfit endurance through the same kind of review we have:
Research- short term studies on high intensity training shows improved VO2max and in some cases performance, but we have looked at why those don’t apply neatly already.  No research on crossfit endurance in particular
Theory- It goes against all known scientific theory for how endurance performance should be improved and how it actually happens.
Practice- No good runners do it.  We know from history what happens and what kind of performance you get even if you do a lot of high intensity work with very little volume.
And lastly, it doesn’t help that they subscribe to every fad from diet to pose method of running that there is.

Finally, if you want a very interesting research approach to the high volume/intensity paradigm read Stephen Seiller’s nice summary here:

And finally, I’d like to point out that finishing and racing are different.  I’ve heard far too many times that so and so did crossfit and finished a marathon so it must work.  No offense and sorry to sound elitist, but if I took off 6 months and did nothing I could still finish a marathon.  It doesn’t mean my program of doing nothing worked. 
What does this all mean?
While this was a lengthy rant, it only touches the surface of the Crossfit or Crossfit Endurance phenomenon.  My point wasn’t to critique everything they did (that might be later) but to teach you why some of their claims they make, even research based claims, might be wrong.

In the future we’ll look at some of the specifics behind crossfit.

40 comments:

  1. Delighted to read this. Crossfit is just 1940s-1960s training all over again. When Arthur Lydiard's endurance-trained boys came on the scene, they blew the interval-trained champions away. Nowaday, Emil Zatopek's world records and Olympic times would hardly raise eyebrows on the US collegiate level.

    The Crossfit-style interval brouhaha has been around for a long time - it's standard dogma amid the Testosterone Nation body-building scene.

    Intervals are addictive - no question, they deliver very fast, spectacular results - as any distance runner discovers after 6-8 weeks of track work. Problem is, that's where it ends. As Lydiard famously put it, you can train for max anaerobic endurance in a month or two, but you can keep improving aerobic metabolism for many years. It's the long miles at 80% to 85% MHR that kept Lydiard's proteges rising to the next level every year until they won on the elite level.

    The birders have a saying: "When the bird and the book disagree - believe the bird." No elite distance runners DON'T do intervals today; and none of them do them as base training. CrossFit and the bodybuilders are like the Catholics in heaven; they don't know that anyone else is there.

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  2. Great analysis! Thanks for all the detail and counter points, it's good to hear some counter arguments to all the claims.

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  3. awesome article. now I have more ammunition for the next discussions :D

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  4. Well-written article. I do think you over-generalize a bit too much and even pull a bit of the "us vs. them" fallacy yourself however. Many CrossFit trainers and CrossFit Endurance trainers do use periodization, individualization, and long distance in their programming.

    That said, Greg Glassman and Brian MacKenzie have big mouths and typically end up saying some stupid sh*t that makes a lot of other CrossFitters have to post on blogs justifying their training program! Ha, thanks for reading.

    Best,
    Chris

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  5. I almost stopped reading your article after the first few paragraphs because you don't actually have a grasp on the CFE regimen if you describe it as "It’s simply mix short intensity work with slightly longer high intensity work and that’s all you get."

    Even the mass programmed website is pretty explicit that it is short, long, and then tempo or time trial. There are frequently 10-13 mile tempo runs as part of this regimen. I have been following CFE for 6 months and done tabata only one time. The founder is also pretty outspoken that the program is just an entry into this form of training.

    I think that you are going to be surprised at the next generation of kids that have this cross-functional strength as a foundation. It is certainly an open question if it can produce a world-class marathoner but to dismiss it out of hand is just immature.

    Volume then Intensity and Form as an after thought is the current model.

    CFE is form, followed by strength and intensity with less focus on volume.

    I think that the exceptionally runners happen into form and strength and progress with volume and intensity and in many cases too much volume. Even Ryan Hall now credits his Boston race with running less.

    CFE is pointing out that the vast majority of runners have poor form and little strength so layering on traditional methods just doesn't do much.

    There has never been a large block of people training in this fashion. It has been used by decathletes and plenty of former eastern block countries pretty effectively across shorter disciplines.

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  6. Interesting read...I've been leery of all the hype surrounding CrossFit-it seems to me to be a good way to get yourself injured. While I'm sure there are benefits to doing CrossFit (as there are with just about any workout method) I'll be sticking with more traditional, time-tested, proven ways of training.

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  7. Great article. I Like some of CFE but i dont understand how they can claim you can do ultra distance events by doing just the wod. How can you train your body to deal with being on a bike for 6+ hours by doing interval training? And running 2 5k's back to back doesnt prep you for a 50 mile run. No possible way. Its like you said almost anyone can finish a marathon but that doesnt mean cfe will make you able to do it betelter or more efficiently. Thanks again for the article

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  8. Thanks for the comments everyone.

    -Boris- Bingo! hit the nail on the head.

    -Chris- You're right I do overgeneralize. That's the nature of the beast in addressing a big field. It's just like when you talk about Lydiard disciples for example. I tried to stick with the core concepts in generalizing.

    Narendra-Sorry about not being more specific. But CF= workouts only. So you have tempos/all out time trials, short intervals and long intervals to a degree...My point was technically it is ALL quality. All intensity...nothing else

    Maybe I will be surprised. But we have a centuries worth of endurance training that tells me I'm probably not. And I have nothing wrong with strength. Strength training can be good, but CF does a poor job of even that compared to accepted methods. It's why even Decathletes don't use CF. And CFE model of form is poor too (POSE)...soo ya.

    And give me a break on Ryan Hall. He went from running 120s down to 100s or something to that affect. He's got a lifetime of mileage behind him. He's hardly your model. There is no model for what you're suggesting in the endurance world.

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  9. A response from an ordinary Crossfitter...

    I think there a little misunderstanding about the goals of Crossfit. They're really different than the goals of running trainers like yourself.

    Now, that misunderstanding may very well have been provoked by the big mouths and too-extravagant claims of some Crossfit or CFE thought leaders. I see some of those and groan. Sorry.

    Big mouths aside, I think we all understand that Crossfit is not going to make you a world class endurance runner.

    But, the goal of Crossfit is not to be 99th percentile endurance runner. Or 10K or 5K. It's not to be 99th percentile at any one thing.

    The goal of Crossfit is to be _good_ at _everything_.

    That's my goal. I know I'm not going to win the 10K I'm entered in in April, but I'll turn in a decent time, 40min I hope, and have fun at it. I know I'll get smoked by the top runners.

    But, the day after that race, I'll go to the Crossfit box and bang out X rounds of Y deadlifts and Z pullups (or whatever) in a time that those top runners couldn't match.

    Different goals.

    Different training methods for different goals.

    Anyway... Sorry about the big mouths some Crossfitters have. It's unnecessary and juvenile. Thanks for the science references, they're interesting.

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  10. Great article and I'm with you all the way apart from dumping the girl because she was into crossfit!
    I mean thats just pure mean!

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  11. As a professional Decathlete I can say I have done CrossFit workouts and they are basically what we would do in the off season. For the short time I tried CF I still went to the track after and did my normal workout, I was using the CF as a general warmup. CF is not for the professional athlete looking for performance gains. CF is about being fit, and for the general population CF is better than many other workout routines, but for performance based athletes I personally do not see any gains for doing CF, except maybe some variety in the offseason, but not for any length of time. Tom Pappas (now that he has officially retired from professional Decathlons) has now opened a CF studio himself, and I am sure he sees some benefit for most people (general population), but CF workouts are very different from what us decathletes do, and in my opinion are not ideal or even close to ideal for anyone looking for performance but mainly for fitness level.

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  12. Great post, Steve. I've written a few posts on CFE and recently issued a public challenge to author Tim Ferriss to use 12 weeks of CFE training and run a 50K ultramarathon, as he claimed was possible in his book, The 4-Hour Body, or donate $50K to charity.

    http://how2runfast.com/post/2512914122/can-crossfit-endurance-get-you-to-the-finish-line

    http://how2runfast.com/post/2956320360/mistakes-in-the-running-section-of-the-4-hour-body

    http://how2runfast.com/post/15562823273/tim-ferriss-50k-ultra-challenge

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  13. I love a good CF bashing, but I'm intrigued more by point 9. Specifically, assuming endurance performance is the goal, how might one best set up their workouts? Specifically, I'm thinking in regards to hill sprints and other fast twitch stuff, which is usually placed at the end of easy running. That would be an awesome point to devote a post to, in my opinion.

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  14. i've always thought of CF as a crazy fad with not much point to the way they workout. you did a pretty good job of putting my feelings into words that i didn't have. i do have a question for you. point #9 about not doing strength then endurance. any suggestions on what to do or literature where you can point me to learn more?

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  15. To bring a non-running perspective to the table, the same can be said about other events and crossfit. I often reach out to crossfit members since there gyms are some of the few that have Olympic lifting facilities when I am travelling (this is one benefit of CF). However, each and every one tries to convince me that crossfit is in some way superior to the training plan I have that was individualized and written for me by an Olympic champion. This is not just the founders talking, it comes to me from every day members of clubs around the world.

    I am open to new ideas, but I'm not willing to waste training time on something that is not tailored to my event and its needs, not tailored to my individual characteristics, not periodized to my goals, and has no track record of success among elite track and field athletes. This arrogance turns me off to CF, even though I can see many advantageous it may have to non-elite athletes. You couldn't have summarized it better Steve and keep up the great posts...even throwers find they can learn something from them.

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  16. Very well written and easily digestible. Now that X-Fit is full on retard Reebok X-Fit, articles like this are needed even more to battle the myth that is all things X-Fit.

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  17. #5
    I harp on people to know there history
    ->
    I harp on people to know THEIR history
    ----

    Great article! You went over a lot of the issues I have with CF, but from the strength training perspective (Mark Rippetoe: I don't want my muscles to be "confused", I want them to know exactly what the hell they're supposed to be doing!). Thanks

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  18. Steve, you have great balance and sense of the big picture. And thanks for posting Seiller's link, there's a big emphasis today by cyclists/triathletes with powermeters being focused on FTP workouts (or what runners know as tempo). It is just one type of workout to be put in the mix.

    Mike LaChapelle, make sure you structure that challenge properly. As Steve points out, finishing is not racing. Read this - http://espn.go.com/fantasy/blog/_/name/poker/id/6102087
    You can search more for a full account of this bet, but it affirms that Steve could finish a marathon off no training (he could probably to a 100 mile ultra too).

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  19. Could you elaborate on this a little: "This goes for not only sequencing of endurance and strength work, but also in regards to sequencing different strength workouts. You have to know what pre-fatiguing muscles does to the subsequent training effect. And you have to know what the effect is on the Central Nervous System."

    What is the best way to structure endurance and strength work?

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  20. Well said Steve. As both a strength & conditioning coach and running coach I agree with your take on CFE. The express goal of CF is to be a "generalist"...overall fitness. (And even then, there are many ways to develop a high level of general fitness apart from CF). But if you want to run distance, you better be prepared to specialize.

    As to your comment about competing vs. completing a given distance: When asked about this at an ACSM conference a couple of years ago, Jack Daniels said his advice to anyone who was simply looking to complete a marathon would be to rest up as much as possible beforehand.

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  21. The best way to debunk CFE is to simply put it to the test for oneself.

    From October of 2009 to May 2010 I did CF and CFE to train for my local ultra, Bishop High Sierra Ultramarathon. I followed the 3 days on, 1 off base of CF (6 workouts a week) and did CFE workouts 3 days a week for an average weekly mileage of around 12-14. I have all my running data leading up to the day--I think I ran barely more than 200 miles total volume, with much of my longer workouts being in the form of 5k-10k - 1/2 marathon trail races (for the intensity.) I did AT and tempo runs, track speedwork, tabata, etc. I also ate as "Paleo" as I could, with the exception that I used GU and Endurox R4--I couldn't stop believing in immediately useable fuel. In short, I gave "the program" as honest a try as any non-professional athlete could.

    The result was an 11:40 finish at the 50 miler (about 7,800k of vertical, 25 miles run above 7,000ft.) I nearly dropped at mile 20 or so as I was cramping like I've never cramped in my life--quads, hamstrings and calves all firing like mad. I was taking electrolytes and hydrating as I had in prior events without an issue, so I wasn't sure what caused that. I recovered relatively quickly from the event, but was not impressed enough beyond "finishing" to continue the "new" way. One thing I'll say about CF or any program that throws lots of intensity at you--it resets your brain's threshold/pain tolerance in a positive way. The downside is that you end up on a razor's edge recovery wise. Your central nervous system simply takes a beating. Add in any normal life stresses and you'd better have your own private retreat to live in for adequate recovery. Not my case with two kids, full time teaching, etc.

    After the CFE experiment I decided to return to my old training methods which are essentially Lydiard. I ran relatively high volume weeks and lower, more traditional intensities, with only a light load of threshold work thrown in. I ran a lot more vertical, but kept the HR down on those efforts so I was almost exclusively hiking the steep ups (anything over about 400ft per mile). I did zero CF or CFE (and I don't think they are bad for VARIETY or fun cross training.) The results (to compare apples and apples) I ran the 100k course at Bishop ultras in just under 13 hours. The 100k course is the 50 mile course with a left turn thrown in at about mile 48 which then takes you on another 1,400ft of climbing, plus the extra miles. Three weeks prior I had run 9:08 at the Leona Divide 50 mile which is about 8,000ft of vertical and lots of single track. Two months after Bishop 100k I ran 26:40 at Angeles Crest 100 (my first 100 miler). Between Bishop 100k and AC I ran/hiked about 450 miles all at low intensity, but with lots of vertical (peaking at 22k one week.)

    According to CFE, I should have been a slow, broken down shitbag of overtraining. Yet I was sick or injured zero days. Also, apart from the 3 100 mile weeks i put in, my average training week in hours was no different that when I did CF and CFE--about 9 hours. Also, my recovery from my events, including AC 100, was remarkable. I always walked normally, was able to run, squat, jump, etc. Zero problems.

    To summarize for my personal experiment of one 41 year old male midpack runner:

    8 months/200 miles of intensity: Bishop 50 miler: 11:40

    10 months/2000+ miles of "traditional" training:
    Bishop 100k 12:54
    Angeles Crest 100 mile: 26:40
    Leona Divide 50 mile: 9:08
    zero injuries, zero training days missed due to illness/fatigue

    But your results may vary.

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  22. Let me just say, I love your blog and coaching philosophy. I very much enjoyed this article (although it's sort of like preaching to the choir for me-- I wrote an entire paper about the necessity of endurance training for endurance athletes, essentially an anti-CFE/anti-only-do-HIIT argument).

    Side note: your article "strength training for distance runners" has been down forever. Where did it go?

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  23. Good points that highlight the need for systematic training as well as the fitness consumer's desire for "dramatic results they can really feel working" right away.

    Between slick marketing and false advertising, that expectation isn't going to change anytime soon. It's what keeps us all writing the truth about fitness.

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  24. Very well written blog post and as accurate as one can get when discussing something broad, general, and inclusive as CF states it is.

    CF is a "generalization" by the very definition(s) Glassman has documented on video and CF journals. If anyone is doing anything planned or with purpose, then by CF's definition that person is not doing CF. There is no reasoning with most CF'ers. They blindly repeat whatever their "leaders" spit out. The marketing machine is scary dangerous. It really shows how people are lemmings who cannot think for themselves nor do their own research. One size does not fit all, but the huckster's are doing a good job of convincing the public their is a one size fits all and it's CF.

    For those that say CF is for the general population....that is a gross generalization. As a former affiliate owner, it is not far from the truth to say the majority of affiliates will cave and allow clients to do things they have no business doing...such as kipping pull-ups, muscle-ups, snatch and cleans (without spending the time to learn the movements well). Most clients would be better off spending the time to learn a few compound movements well to develop strength, developing a strong aerobic base using traditional methods, and correcting flexibility/mobility/orthopedic issues they developed over a life time. It is rather comical how they spew the BS of learning mechanics first, then doing the movements consistently well, and only after the previous have been met will they add intensity. Just go to any of the affiliate websites and watch their videos.

    For those that defend it's use and state it is known CF is not for the elite athlete, you need to do your research. CF promotes the lie that the needs of an Olympic Athlete and "Joe Shit The Rag Man" differs only by degree not kind. Yes it is true that everyone needs strength, power, cardiovascular and respiratory endurance, etc....yet there are better and safer ways to achieve this than by marketing hype that makes people think they can become "elite" or "Navy Seal Killers". People defend it because they fell for the BS (as I did at one time) and have invested a lot into being a part of the hype. Most are too proud to admit they may have been wrong to a degree.

    Unfortunately everyone is trying to make a buck off of the hype and marketing machine CF has become. Even those that bash it on their blogs, find ways to kiss enough ass to keep some CF'ers buying their programs. Some credible coaches have sold their souls to CF....I am glad to see Rip was one of the few to have the heart to separate himself.

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  25. From a fat boy on the other side of the fence (powerlifting) it's nice to see we have some allies on either side of crossfit.

    Excellent article.

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  26. You want to be an elite runner and compete in a marathon, do what you do. You want to run a sub 20 min 5K, deadlift 500 lbs, be able to do 30 pull-ups in a row, clean and jerk 300 lbs, do what we do. It's that simple. Oh and don't delete people's comments who don't agree with you. It's just not good science.

    And I noticed you said one of the goals of CF and CFE was hypertrophy? You truly don't know what CF is about, don't be an idiot.

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  27. Don't listen to Rude Anonymous. Obviously doesn't have a clue- needs to get off your blog site. Keep up the good articles that make you think Steve. Thanks.

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  28. I wrote a response on my blog:
    http://springfortare.blogspot.com/2012/01/critique-crossfit-and-crossfit.html

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  29. Thanks for the post and I enjoyed reading it! Like one of the other commenters I sort of thought CF was just a fad type workout and based on my own experience in any kind of training I've done, I thought CF was just a bit silly. So it's nice/interesting to read the actual scientific reasons behind why it seemed a bit ridiculous.

    A couple of things that made me kind of laugh were the people who do CF and say their goal is, "to be good at everything" well...isn't that a tad ambiguous? The other is I'm glad you said how there is a big difference between racing a marathon (or any distance) and just wanting to finish. It's like the difference between wanting to be the best runner you can be or the general person just wanting to lose weight/look better/more fit/be able to run.

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  30. "You want to run a sub 20 min 5K, deadlift 500 lbs, be able to do 30 pull-ups in a row, clean and jerk 300 lbs, do what we do"

    You are delusional and it is a false statement. 99% of those coming into CF will NEVER deadlift 500lbs and clean 300lbs. Those that can come from a power based background, are genetically gifted, and /or do a strength/power based workout which is planned.....hence that is not CF by CF's very definition. Put down the kool-aid, stop thinking CF'ers are special, and think for yourself.

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  31. Narendra Yeah he runs less, but from 120 to a 100. Is that volume crossfit approved?

    http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=23686

    Hall’s pre-Boston recovery strategies remain intact (weekly mileage at 100, down from 120, multiple easy days between hard workouts, days off).

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  32. I don't have any objection to the crossfit thing as a fitness matter, I object to the attitude that pervades the crossfit community. A recent 50k I ran was infested with a dozen or so loud, obnoxious, high-fiving, overweight, crossfit jerks. I'm sure they could all kick my ass in a fight, but I don't think a one of them finished the race.

    Oh, and don't get me started on the Tough Mudders.

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  33. "You want to run a sub 20 min 5K, deadlift 500 lbs, be able to do 30 pull-ups in a row, clean and jerk 300 lbs, do what we do"

    Really, you guys all run a sub 20min 5k? That kind of performance certainly doesn't come from the crossfit facilities in my area. I do see a lot of them in my physical therapy clinic though. Crossfit has been great for my practice, but from a performance perspective I haven't found a successful athlete who subscribes to crossfit training as long term approach to improving their performance.

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  34. You are so far off it's not even funny and clearly you know nothing about CF or CFE. Typical hater.

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  35. Really interesting points. Glad to have stumbled across this. Going to go put a link to your blog from mine...

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  36. From 100km ultras, 24hr solo MTB races and adventure races, I love endurance races. I have had some good finish times and some bad ones but mostly a middle of the pack competitor,I also love crossfit and Kettlebells. I love the overall fitness and feel that crossfit gives your body, but know from experience that LSD is the only thing that can prepare your body fully for that 6 hr+ distance, yes sadly there are some wild claims and some atrocious technique amongst crossfitters, the general principle for overall fitness is good. Because its new, doesn't make it wrong and I think it will change and progress to meet each athletes demands, I know I use it and chance it to meet my needs.

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  37. Hey Steve,

    Thanks very much for putting the time into writing this post. You brought up excellent points. I'm a Strength Coach and also a Grad student in Exercise Phys. I'm not a supporter of Crossfit but enjoy high intense workouts (running and weights). I ran competitively for 9 years and don't think for a second I would supplement my running program with crossfit workouts. Keep up the great work.

    Jon

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  38. Great article. It points out that we should continue to look at new ideas, but avoid unproven fads based on minimal results. I do think that for people that are not doing any form of exercise, just getting out there is great and maybe CF is for them, but for people that take their discipline to the next level, you are going to need more than a CF approach.

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  39. Steve,

    A few random thoughts, but first a disclaimer, I've never used CF, so I can't comment on the majority of your post (well written BTW).

    When I saw the RW article in question I was left with a different impression altogether. It didn't strike me as an advocacy piece for CF. Rather, I simply saw it as this year's annual "abs/core" issue. RW seems to devote ab/core training to their Feb issue.

    I also thought it might have been RW's response to Running Times' recurring focus on "dynamic stretching" and "general maintenance activity".

    I've bumped into CF many times while researching strength training for runners, most web searches have several CF links. But I never delved too deeply into it because it impressed me as a bit too disjointed and lacking the focus I needed.

    Many runners seem to have gravitated to CF to fill their "cross training" void. But why CF? For many, cross training = strength training = CF. But I also think the dearth of practical material addressing the why's, how's, etc. of running - cross/strength training has led many to make uniformed decisions.

    So in addition to debunking CF, please also address whether there's a place for strength training in a runner's training regime. If so, explain which exercises should be performed (i.e. muscles being targeted & why they're important for runners, sets, reps etc.). Please don't use the words "it depends", which turns reasoned advice into mush.

    It would also be great if you would elaborate further on:

    "This goes for not only sequencing of endurance and strength work, but also in regards to sequencing different strength workouts. You have to know what pre-fatiguing muscles does to the subsequent training effect. And you have to know what the effect is on the Central Nervous System."

    An earlier comment said it best 'What is the best way to structure endurance and strength work?'

    Thanks - great blog!

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  40. Hi Steve,

    I wonder if early examples of high intensity training being used is rather different than modern example of doing similar style of training. 50+ years ago the average lifestyle was very different to what Americans and western Europeans experience now - previously we used walk places, used work doing hard manual labour and be on out feet much of the day, this would have given us quite a different aerobic base to build from.

    These days it's typical to travel to work or school by car, even taking the car for short journeys. Leisure activities from childhood onwards are typically less active. Most of us study and work sat down with a HR barely above our resting HR. This certainly impacts our aerobic base.

    So I'd say that using high intensity works alone is far less likely to achieve the results that it once would have done.

    Robert.

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